There's a lot of things about Physics, especially physics of the very small that we don't understand. A lot of it is sepeculation but the overall picture is there and sound. As we learn more, the gaps fill in and some fundamentals may even change but the things we have already defined will remain intact for the most part. Einstein put forth the laws of physics that replaced Newtons but Newtons still apply for most things. Its wasn't like Newton was totally wrong.

Also why introduce the GOD equation when a simpler explanation exists. Because if you insert GOD, you have to ask...where did God come from....why would we he make things appear to be natural but secretly be turning the wheels behind the scenes?

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Jason
-I don't know if I'm alive and dreaming, or dead and remembering.

"Chuck Norris can speak braille."

But to explain the Big Bang we have to throw traditional physics out the window. So there is not continuity. In light of this God makes as much sense as any other explanation.

You ask where did God come from. I ask where did the Big Bang come from. It's the same question. I think it has the same answer too.

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Sean Dotson, PE
RND Automation & Engineering
Free 30 day trial of iPropWiz v5
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Our current understanding of Physics is incomplete....just like during Newtons time which Einstein later revised. Same thing in this case...our understanding is incomplete.....doesn't mean you have to insert God into the gap in our knowledge. Nothing is 100% certain.....even after proving all the details of how a big bang occured...you could still say a god or gods or whatever still created the process. There's no way to refute it.....but should you live your life based on that?

Its not the same question.....the big bang is way simplier than explaining a magical omni-everything intelligent being who somehow exists outside of time and space and knows/controls everything. And why stop at A god...what not infinite gods...or goddesses etc.

Its funny...no one disputes that the Greek or Egyptian gods don't exist. But Jehovah must exist right?

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Jason
-I don't know if I'm alive and dreaming, or dead and remembering.

"Chuck Norris can speak braille."

As is our understanding of things that may be beyond our comprehension in regards to a creator.

Look I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. All I'm saying is that there are plenty of things that science cannot explain. Making up things like laws of physics that all of a sudden do not work is no more fanciful than explain it with an intelligent creator.



If it so much simpler then why have they not figured it out yet?



There are still Greeks & Egyptians that would disagree with that statement.


I have this image that when they finally fire up the Haydron collider and smash some particles they find this "God Particle". And he appears and says "Stop messing around with stuff you don't understand. You'll put your eye out." And then disappers".

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Sean Dotson, PE
RND Automation & Engineering
Free 30 day trial of iPropWiz v5
Follow @seandotson & @mcadforums & @rndautomationon Twitter

Its not really made up. We have a good understanding its just incomplete. They don't fully understand it and they speculate on what they may be missing so it isn't making something up, its reasoning out what it could be. I guess people could've just said that God holds us down on the planet and not bother exploring and figuring out what gravity is. We still don't really know what it is......magic god glue perhaps.



Simplier ....but still very complex just not nearly as acomplex an idea as a creator. Kind of like comparing a table fan to a swiss watch.



That's probably very true.

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Jason
-I don't know if I'm alive and dreaming, or dead and remembering.

"Chuck Norris can speak braille."

I get it now, in 2008 scientific laws work when they point us in a direction that we

I recon, for me, not believing much of any of it, my bigest problem with religion vs science is that science, when showen to be historicaly wrong says "you know, you right, we were wrong, lets see if we can fix that and try and find what is right" where religion (which is so easily shown to be wrong, in many many places, as already clearly pointed out) will come out with "oh thats not what it means, yeah sure its the 'word' of god, but once you embellish it, then its right".

I have had bosses that were always right, despite being shown to be wrong. They are what, down under, we call a "wanker". They are full of crap and people just stop listening to them even when the do do some good!

Daniel

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I started out with nothing and still have most of it left.

You have a bit of a wait, its broken and wont run again until Spring 09. Perhaps God doesnt want us to find his particle

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Nick

So long and thanks for all the fish

The problem, as I've so ineffectually tried to point out, is that science has lost its way and is, in effect becoming a religion to its radically faithful. The principals of science have been compromised. I think, aside from the Creation vs. Evolution debate, Global Warming is another good example of this. To a lot of people steeped in their beliefs, the numbers don

...stepping boldly into the fray....

Nothing like a good old Politics or Religion discussion to get the folks motivated. Unfortunately no matter how hard you try there will always be a difference of opinion.

Personally I do believe in a higher power, but I have issues with "Organised" religion which I see as man's interpretation of God and his expectations.

I use the term God because from what I've read most here appear to be of Christian (European based) religions.

What about the Eastern religions and their "God" - is it (used in preference to He for those reading who subscribe to the God is a Woman camp) a different entity? If so then how can there be more than one deity? If it is the same then why do we have different versions to suit different societies, and more importantly why do we kill each other over the variations? Back to my original point of religion being based on man's interpretations.

Over the years the scriptures have been distorted by many organisations to suit their own ends, and multiple translations exist of most religious texts...why?

I don't see the need personally to attend a Catholic Church to prove my belief - once a week I get to feel special. I mean sitting in amongst all that splendour and finery, with gold trimmings and ornate statues & windows, makes me feel inferior......but hey there's nothing else to do with all those donations right? No starving kids, no ruined and disaster struck societies, no disabled people without assistance.

Before I get flamed for the above I will admit that the churches do provide for some charities, but majority of donations etc these days come from people in the street. What harm would there be in selling off the fancy trimmings and buildings and just use the local centre and a wooden stage. Do you really need a fancy new 20,000 seater stadium for one man to express his opinions of what every other person should do? After all it is his own interpretation of another mans translation of some ancient blokes account of reality way back when.

The bible was written in a more innocent and simpler time. I don't feel it can be rigidly applied to today's society. You cannot trust your neighbour, and if you turn the other cheek you'll probably get knifed (don't start me on my ideas for violent offenders / criminals )

So what should we teach our kids, and this is a major concern for me know as my boy is just turning 3. The school system sucks beyond belief. I work with 19 & 20 year olds who have A Levels and yet do not know half of the major countries in the world, have atrocious grammar and spelling (remind me to spell check before I post ) and wouldn't know general knowledge if you slapped them with it. And now some tw*t is proposing to allow "alternative" spellings to words because they are in common use (mainly from texting, chatting etc).

My 2p (that's about 1.25c right ). Flame on.......


Jas

God was a woman till she changed her mind!


Agree 100%, (you that is not the tw*t).

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Nick

So long and thanks for all the fish

I generally point to Pascals Wager

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal's_Wager

Of course you still have to pick the right religion, but at least you are shooting at the right target.

Even if you can someday prove the big bang theory, it won't bother me a bit.

God could have created the world anyway he wanted. Big bang or not. 10 zillion years or 7 days long. He even could have made the world in 7 days with 10 zillion years of history build in just to give geologist something to do!

The point is God is by definition all powerful. At least by my definition. A halfway powerful God is like having a Superman who can't lift a car....why bother.

For my bias, I am Wisconsin Synod Lutheran. For the purposes of this discussion, that means I believe things happened exactly as the bible said. Did he create the world in 7 days? I don't know, but he could have, and it really isn't worth arguing over. (Plus it seems like tempting fate to call God a wimp!) Especially pointless is arguing with science that contains LOTS of hypotheticals.

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Kristina Vogt
Mechanical Engineer
Thiele Technologies

"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work."
- Thomas Alva Edison (1847-1931)

Its not worth arguing over, until people start telling other people how to live and make laws to that effect based on their beliefs.

And what does all powerful mean? or All knowing? If there is a God, he/she/it may know a lot and be immensely powerful, but there's no such thing as all powerful, its a contradiction. For instance, can God create a rock that even he cannot lift? Can he create an equation that even he cannot solve? Can he create another God even more powerful than he? Yes or no....he's not all powerful, all knowing, or all anything else.

God is relative to your knowledge and technology base. To ancient Eygptians and Greeks, we are gods. Our Angels of Death (US Military) could have decimated those cultures and they would have thought their apocalypse had come.

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Jason
-I don't know if I'm alive and dreaming, or dead and remembering.

"Chuck Norris can speak braille."

Now that is an interesting question. I certainly can't answer it.

It reminds me of some more Chuck Norris "facts"--going off the theme of your signature block.

Chuck Norris counted to infinity - twice.

Anyway, I don't think this issue should be legislative. Evolution is not a law of nature it is only a theory, albeit the best one science has right now. I would prefer if it was taught as a theory, but in practise it probably doesn't matter. Creationist will teach their beliefs to their kids regardless of the schools curriculum. My only concern would be getting demoted by a professor for believing God could create the universe and do it in any manner or time frame he wanted. That is just as good of a theory as something caused a big bang and all these little particles kept rearranging until they evolved into complex thinking beings that can now design machines to blow everything back to small particles. There are a number of leaps of faith in that line of reasoning.

_________________
Kristina Vogt
Mechanical Engineer
Thiele Technologies

"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work."
- Thomas Alva Edison (1847-1931)