I have an improvement to a machine replacement part that I feel is Patentable. For my own personal satisfaction, I would like to patent it, but running a business the question is " Is the value of the patent worth the cost?"

I don't want to spend $5,000 plus to patent a product, only to still have it copied and the cost of enforcement becomes higer than the return.

In the past my opinion has been to develop the product, sell it hard, capture the market and keep it by being able to produce in volume at reduced price.

Does anyone have any experiences in this area - good or bad to share.

I would appreciate it.

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Nick Hahn
Lornic Design

Specializing in pork harvesting equipment.

"The Standard Deviation of the Sampling Distribution of the Sample Mean ! " ( My wife's favorite statistics phrase! )

How much the part worth? How easy is it to copy? If anyone with half a brain can copy it, don't even bother. Never patent anything but have been "reverse engineer" for a few years.

Its a cast iron part - so tooling costs would prohibit my customers from copying the part. I'm more concerned with my competition copying the design. It is a fairly simple improvement - one of those " why didn't I think of that " sort of thing.

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Nick Hahn
Lornic Design

Specializing in pork harvesting equipment.

"The Standard Deviation of the Sampling Distribution of the Sample Mean ! " ( My wife's favorite statistics phrase! )

I don't know about patents, but i know you'd want to cya.

I worked for a comapny that had something they designed patented under them, and then had to pay out royalties. Course take it with salt since this is second hand info, to a situation that occured before i was employed there

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"a comapny that had something they designed patented under them"

I always thought that if you had designed and sold something it was effectively 'published' and any subsequent patent was actually ineffective. And there would always be the option for an 'application for revocation' to the Patent Office. It's well known that many searches by Patent Offices are not as thorough as they should be.

If you have an idea that you can't afford to patent then it may be wise to 'publish' it to prevent any problems later. There used to be specialist journals in which this could be done for a modest price.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prior_art

" prior art or state of the art is all information that has been disclosed to the public in any form before a given date."

I've read somewhere that you can mail yourself a sealed copy of a design and use it as proof of date of prior art - you only unseal it in the event of a patent issue, and the postmark certifies the date. but it is supposed to be "disclosed to the public", so even publishing it to your own website should count.

"If prior art is discovered after a patent issues, it can be used to invalidate the patent."

-b

I'm not as concerned with some one else patenting it before I do - I just don't want to spend the money on the patent, only to have some one else make a small change so the patent in unenforceable.
Not to mention the legal costs involved in a patent infringement case.

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Nick Hahn
Lornic Design

Specializing in pork harvesting equipment.

"The Standard Deviation of the Sampling Distribution of the Sample Mean ! " ( My wife's favorite statistics phrase! )

Do you really think it's patentable? You can do a quick check by shelling out a few hundred to a patent attorney to check. Would be a good first step.

The other question is how big is the market for it? If not huge then it might not be worth it.

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Sean Dotson, PE
RND Automation & Engineering
Free 30 day trial of iPropWiz v5
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I'll probably spent the $ to get a Patentability Opinion -

The market is relatively small ( 100 - 200 pcs/year) , but its a $700 item - if I can hold a 10% premium because of the patent thats $7,000 + per year in additional income and the patent is paid for the first year.

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Nick Hahn
Lornic Design

Specializing in pork harvesting equipment.

"The Standard Deviation of the Sampling Distribution of the Sample Mean ! " ( My wife's favorite statistics phrase! )

Nick, Spend the $'s for an opinion and of course the opinion will be: "Yes it's worth patenting, and we can help you with that".

Patented or not, as you point out in your original post, you can still find the product on the market with your improvements. You will then need to hire a lawyer to fight the infringement. Will you do that? If not, then don't waste the money on the patent.

Also, don't discount the Chinese copying the design and marketing it - again patent or not.

In many times as you pointed out originally, it's best to get to the market first - flood the market, make your money and move on if it's copied. This is advice I got in a Patent and Invention seminar put on by a local Community College - sponsored by the USPTO.

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Ron
http://www.arken.net Engineering and Design
http://www.arkenstudios.com Professional Photography

yeah, its like going to a car dealership and asking them if you should buy a new car

In the r/c model airplane world there have been endless examples in the last few years of small designers putting out a new and successful airplane kit and within months they get copied down to the last detail by chinese mfgs and imported in ARF form. It's even harder to pursue than a patent claim vs. a domestic mfg, you have to get an injunction against the importer in court.

-b

Actually if you have the right attorney he'll be honest. We have more than a few ideas not pass the sniff test and we did not patent them.

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Sean Dotson, PE
RND Automation & Engineering
Free 30 day trial of iPropWiz v5
Follow @seandotson & @mcadforums & @rndautomationon Twitter

I wish I had seen this thread sooner. Something to consider. I've been working for my present employer for a year and a half, and have finally had to sign a non-disclosure agreement. I usually sign them up front when first hired on. We've been developing a new idea and the boss called in the patent attorney, and it's been a real education for me. We are being sued by another company for a patent infringment on something we designed and didn't patent. We have documentation to prove when we developed the design and began selling it, but we still have to go to court to prove it. Now we are patenting any and all new ideas even if we don't market them. We are a small company and this could get costly, but we are trying to stay ahead of our larger competitors by innovation. I guess it will depend on how valuable your idea is to someone else if there is no patent... hope this helps. BTW, our patent attorney is "retired" and is very reasonable about his fees. food for thought....

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Frank

If we're not having fun, we're doing something wrong......

Not sure what your agreement states but look for non-compete clauses. You might want to check into your states laws. In FL you cannot be forced to sign a non-compete AFTER you have been at the job for more than 90 days (maybe 30).

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Sean Dotson, PE
RND Automation & Engineering
Free 30 day trial of iPropWiz v5
Follow @seandotson & @mcadforums & @rndautomationon Twitter

I met with a local IP Attorney, and have given him the go ahead to file for a patent on my idea ( See: http://lornic.com/Dehairing-X3.html ).

Its simple enought that it shouldn't cost more than $5k including filing fees.

( Probably technically jumped the gun a little as being "Patent Pending" ( Its pending as far as I am concerned! )

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Nick Hahn
Lornic Design

Specializing in pork harvesting equipment.

"The Standard Deviation of the Sampling Distribution of the Sample Mean ! " ( My wife's favorite statistics phrase! )