Specifically?



Who said He does? (If) He created us with Free will, (then) so it is our choice, and He prefers that we have a relationship with him, like any Father would with his son. Do you consider it a personality flaw if any memeber of this forum expects his son to have a decent relationship wiht him, and be thankful for what he as a father provides (i'd use myself, but as yet have no children-just two cats)

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I think i heard someone say something like "Lucky for religion the almighty can do anything he wants and when the word of god is shown to be flawed, they just come out with 'that

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I started out with nothing and still have most of it left.

I honestly believe that both Creation and Evolution are simply a faith, a belief. Neither can be proven because how can you possible prove that there is a God other then to see his works and say "by faith I know that this is the act of God". The same is said for evolution, I was not there, i can not say something did or did not happen. Some things happened some time in the past that science can not explain, and they make a ton of assumptions to fill in the holes in the entire theory of evolution.

I believe that we evolve as well as plants and animals. So in other words, if you bread a dog up north were it is cold, it will start to have offspring with a heavier coat of fat and fur. But I don't believe that a dog will over billions of years turn into a bird and fly south for the winter to get away from the cold. That is the essence of evolution, something turning into something that it is not. A puddle of water with some stuff floating around in it for millions of years turning into something that is alive.

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=eL-cORRZdng

If you really want to see what I mean click on the link to a video that is a great debate on the subject from a man by the name of Kent Hovind. It is a bit long, but if you really want to see why it is so black or white this is a great video to show you exactly why. I for one believe in Creation for the very reasons that Kent describes in that debate.

Edit: If you don't want to watch the whole thing, Kent starts his presentation at 27:30, and it lasts for about 20 minutes.

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This is scientifically not sound. the environment has no effect on our genetics per se (with the exception of heavy radiation, which is typically a negative effect). Cold weather does not cause something to evolve with a thicker coat, rather, the animal with the genetic trait that allows for a thicker coat, survives longer in the cold thus allowign survival (of the fittest perhaps) passing on the trait to the next generation.

side note: I believe this 100% on the micor scale...but you are right...not on a macro scale, Slick006. I have often wondered how a bumble bee could evolve-or rather, why would something evolve into something so aerodynmaically unsound as a bumble bee?

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Evolution has never been "Proven". Evolution is a Theory based on the scientific method.

Creation is not a Theory, it's based on Belief.

What Hovind and other Creationist "Scientist" want others to believe is that Creation is also a Theory of equal validity to Evolution, but it just does not hold up to scientific scrutiny.


Hovind also has no education from accredited universities. In short, he's a quack and a snake oil salesman.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hovind

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Ron
http://www.arken.net Engineering and Design
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The fact that he does not have education from any "accredited universities" does not make him less intelligent does it? Does it mean that all of what he says is false, or a lie? No it doesn't, there are many intelligent people that did not go to these "accredited universities". Not sure what him going to jail has to do with anything? Does that also make him less intelligent? Lots of people don't pay their taxes and go to jail for it.

I'm not saying this guy is correct in all his thinking and I agree that the man is very one sided and extreme in his views, but some of his statements are still true, based on facts.

The fact is that Sean asked why is it so black and White, and i think this is why. Because of people like me, that can not wrap my head around the idea that a puddle of water with stuff in it became alive. Some of that puddle turned into fish and some turned into monkeys while other parts of it made plants. I have never seen or heard of any scientist making something that was not alive, become alive. I like to know why things are the way they are most of the time, but this is one area where I don't know that anyone can convince me 100% truth. Like I said I do believe in some points of evolution, just not to the point that something can come from a bunch of nothing and that nothing can make all that you see around me. That may be my ignorance showing, or my faith coming through, but for me, it is pretty black and white.

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Ed Wiebe
www.convey-all.com

I'll admit I didn't watch the video but I did you read about this guy and his theories. If you hadn't read them and you do, can you tell me if you are still so keen on what he says? If you had and you still think the same as him, best of luck to you, no need to respond.



Sorry but just how was it you 'know' the environment has no effect on genetics over the span of a few thousand years? And that the old environment, before accurately recorded history (not an embellished story), wasn't effecting genetics in a different way from today? I'm not saying it does or did but I would like to know, how you know, it doesn

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I started out with nothing and still have most of it left.

uhh, first, who said he's "intelligent"?

He has zero education in science. His unaccredited education is in religious education.

Here's a good quote:


Here's an even better quote:




Again, Intelligent? He is a thief who stole from you and I by not paying his fair share of taxes. In my book, he's both a thief and a liar and I don't give him one iota of credence in anything he has to say.

Do you overlook his thieving ways just because he's a "good Christian"? I have contempt for him.




Care to quote some true facts that he states?



So Magic or Miracles are easier to believe? "A Puddle of water..." is too simplistic, no wonder you can't wrap your head around it.

Again, no-one can convince you 100% of evolution simply because it's a theory, not fact. One theory that can possibly explain how we came to be here. It just so happens to be a theory that has a whole lot of science and history behind it. Besides Evolution, there's Geology - something that doesn't make life - yet the Young Earth people fail to grasp that science also. Geology has a lot more provable science behind it compared to evolution but your "Dr." Hovind tends to rebuff that too.

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Ron
http://www.arken.net Engineering and Design
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That

Steve does make a good point. What was there before the Big Bang? Nothing. So how can nothing turn into something? There is nothing to interact or change to become something.

Even if you put a "higher power" out of the equation you are taking on faith that there was nothing and now something. There is no science to explain it. But you believe it.

In some respects science and faith are not too far apart.

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I believe Evolution is opposed to all the Creationist religions, not just the Christians so your not alone.



When you say "literally" do you mean "actually" or "in effect; in substance; very nearly; virtually"....?
If you mean "actually", please, try to give some examples.
Do you know how many people have been "actually" forced, by threat of physical violence and death, to toe the line of just the Christians (don't worry about the atrosities of the other guys)? How many people have been told they will spend an eternity burning in hell if they don't toe the line? How many have been killed just because they were not Christian?



Show us some good ones, some big juicy ones, like you've been shown with the "embellished" bible.



Last edited by Inventor Productions on Thu Sep 18, 2008 2:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

The point is just as good either way, because really no one "knows" or can "prove beyond all reasonable doubt" S.F.A.!!!

I don't believe period! And I'm content that way. But I do like a good controversy!

You know, when I think about it, I have never met what I would call a bad person at any church and I've been to a few, I do truly believe each to their own (read: what it takes to get you through the day, as long as you don't blow my buzz) but the world we live in isn't really like that.

Keep smiling and all the best to all of you.

Daniel Membry

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I started out with nothing and still have most of it left.

I already stated above that I feel that both Evolution and Creation can co-exist. I have never said that the "Big Bang" theory has to be the only explanation. I don't know how things started and again, "Big Bang", besides being a great TV show, is just a theory - currently the best theory science has to offer - but still a theory. Science, by it's very nature cannot have in it's core a "magic" step.

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Ron
http://www.arken.net Engineering and Design
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The Big Bang, that's the biggest juiciest one I can think of and it just happens to be the "current" foundation for evolution.

In the US, the vast majority of children go to federally funded schools. That funding comes with strings, correct that, ropes. The few home schoolers who are out there are constantly under attack and legislation is introduced every year to make them comply with federal standards or to put them out of business. If you don't comply and they find out that you're not the government will take your children and label you as unfit parents.

But...but,,,The Big Bang is a magic step. It has no beginning, it just is.