Does that mean we should all stop voting, paying taxes, and reading Government propaganda, i.e. public schools? The biggest killers in history are large governments. The biggest killers of their own people are Marxist Communists.

Most of the stuff I used in the last post came right off the Discovery Science, History, and some kids channels. The evolution TV evangelists run rampant there. The point I was trying to make is that everything boils down to what people believe and have faith in. And, everyone has both.

Speaking of evangelists check this out:

http://www.tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll ... 006/NEWS01


Reminds me of Jim Baker & the PTL club.

Not yet and the manipulation shows the flaws in believing in natural selection.

Peter, I was sorry to read this: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/u ... 749183.ece

Never thought I'd see this in my lifetime.

If your in a democratic society the goverment is something you can change, by voting, and if that doesn't work, get in and change it from the inside. Not saying it's easy but it does happen.

If you want to look at killing from a per capita of the earth you would you not have to believe the biggest killer in history was Cain, for when he killed his brother Abel, he killed off one fourth the population of the earth at the time!

KJV Genesis 1-4

Daniel

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I started out with nothing and still have most of it left.

But wait....apparently thats not true...... what about the other people from the land of Nod, east of Eden?.... (4:16) Cain left the presence of Yahweh and settled in the land of Nod, east of Eden. Cain settled in there, among the people of Nod, and married one of the women of that country.

There was already people on earth, before Adam and Eve, or at least at the same time. Apparently both Cain and Seth took a wife from the "other people"

Now I'm confused

Daniel

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I started out with nothing and still have most of it left.

Well, you could look at it that way or you could look at it as a starting point. In the last 100 years a conservative estimate on deaths caused by communism exceeds 100,000,000.

Here ya go: http://www.amazon.com/Black-Book-Commun ... 0674076087

A useful read.

If you want to quote scriptures then you have to consider that Adam lived to be 800 (Gen 5:4). By that account he could have (and did, see also 5:4) father MANY other children. One of these children or their children could have married Cain.

I am one to believe that the Bible needs to be taken literally in some places and figuratively in others.

Example, I do not believe that a flood came and killed EVERYTHING on the earth. I do not believe that Noah put 2 of EVERY creature on a boat. If you take the dimensions of the ark from the Bible it's simply not large enough.

However I do believe that perhaps there was Noah who put a LOT of animals on a boat and survived a local flood.

This is known as allegory. A way to make a point by giving a "embellished" story to convey the meaning. I think that much of the old testament is full of allegory.

Again so many people see thins as white or black. You have to believe 100% one way or the other. I disagree. I believe that there is a middle ground.

And by the way, no need to feel sorry for me and my faith. We're perfectly fine.

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RND Automation & Engineering
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I know you are and I've been trying to help.

Now, if you believe Adam and all the others quoted in that chapter actually lived that long, ... Who wrote all that down anyways?

[qoute]I am one to believe that the Bible needs to be taken literally in some places and figuratively in others.[/quote]

This is selective belief in order to fit the bible into your frame of reference.



Sean, I think you left out a "not" in your second sentence of the above quote. Lions and Tigers and Bears - oh my. Did he really wrestle those or did they march two by two like in the bible stories on TV? Obviously he had to have pens for them or else they would eat each other. Kind of like a jungle smorgasborg. Hmm, what DID noah feed them? 40 days and 40 nights is a long time to go without food. Maybe he gathered 3 of each with one being disposable... Makes one think about the literal interpretations of the bible.



This is the problem we are experiencing with the Muslim Extremists. They are taking things 100% literal because of course, Mohammed too is infalable.

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Ron
http://www.arken.net Engineering and Design
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(Follow up)

I got an email this morning about Muslim protests in London. I went to Snopes to check it out: http://www.snopes.com/photos/politics/muslimprotest.asp

When you put that together with the current link to Times Online above it paints a chilling picture.

Steve, I think you your requiring everyone to have a "belief" is a bit naive. A Scientist does not need to "Believe" in the discipline he's studying. An Agnostic does not need to "Believe" in anything.

I personally do not believe in any organized religion. If I did, it would most likely be Taoism. But then Taoism isn't organized.

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Ron
http://www.arken.net Engineering and Design
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What gets me is that after reading the protest signs in your link, why on earth do "those" muslims live in Europe? Why, if they do not like Europe, do they not go to their "homeland" where ever that may be? It's perplexing.

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Ron
http://www.arken.net Engineering and Design
http://www.arkenstudios.com Professional Photography

What do you believe in Ron?

Read above, I thought I stated that. But, to clarify...

I do not believe "in" anything. I do not find it necessary to believe in a higher being in order to live my life and battle the emotional lows. I think there may be a higher being that created the universe as we know it, but I'm not going to believe any text that was written a couple thousand years ago as though it is the one truth. Especially when there are other books with conflicting accounts.

I do not believe that if a god created us, that he expects us to worship him and devote our lives to him, only to live our lives and enjoy life. Expecting us to worship him would be a personality flaw.

I certainly do not believe that Christianity is the one true religion and if you do not accept Jesus Christ as the Savior of your soul then you will go to hell. The reason for this is that it condemns Billions of souls to hell who never heard about JC through out time since JC died.

Is that clear Steve?

_________________
Ron
http://www.arken.net Engineering and Design
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In general, it is beleived (amongst "biblical scientific scholars") that most of the animals on the ark were "babies" or not fully grown.

Additionally, if Man were created from the dust of the earth, as a perfect man (and woman), they would have had perfect DNA. As such, they would not have been prone to the genetic diseases and such that now befall us as early as infancy. Additionally, there is implication, that no animals were killed for food until after the fall. In so far as Adams age, yes, he did live along time...and I do not beleive that the bible states specifically when he had Cain and Able, or when or how many children he had spedifically. If you'llnotice, in the bible, typical lineages are mentioned for the geneology of Jewish people (others are mentioned as well, but it is so they can follow their roots). You can actually trace from Noah to Jesus.

With regards to the environment, it would be nothing like we are used to today at least in most places in America. Biblical scholars beleive that the earth was one large conitnent (you may know it as Pangea or the like) and that there was an immense amount of humidity. It did not rain until the flood (that is why Noah was mocked...he told people water would fall fromt he sky-which was obsurd to them, as it had never happened before). The immense number of clouds cover the globe at the time would have provided sufficient proteciton from radiation (in addition to the fact that they started wearing clothes after the fall). When the flood occured, biblical scientists beleive that "Pangea" ripped apart at an alarming rate, rain came down, water came gushing out of aquefers thousands of feet underground at an alarming rate. Most biblical scholars beleive that mountains did not infact exist until after the fall. It was the colliding of the techtonic plates during the flood that caused the mountains. I know, this is alot for some people to swallow...

I have greatly simplified a whole lot of reading...and I apologize for hte lack of foot notes...

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Yes, you believe in and have faith in yourself and that